I order electronics alot here for work. Occationally, to my delight, many of these big ticket items come with rebates in the form of electronic 'toys'. For example; I recently bought a few giga-speed switches, to which I learned I was entitled to an iPod shuffle (512 mb). When I got it, I gave it to my wife, and she loves it.
Is this a 'perk' of working in the industry and the position I work in? Am I entitled to give the iPod to the school?
If this is okay, is it less 'okay' if I seek out products that offer rebates for the sole purpose of getting the rebate? Naturally, the products I buy would be needed for work. But would it be wrong to spend a few $1,000 more just so I can reap the benifits?
Example; I need to buy a few new switches for work, so our network will be faster. I can get switches for about $1,000, but if I buy 5 HP switches that run just under $1,400, then the rebate I will get is a 30 inch LCD tv...
Naturally, these HP switches will out perform the $1,000 that I could get by leaps and bounds...
Is this wrong?
If you say yes, what if I asked the controller/accountant "If I buy something, and get a rebate/prize in return, can I keep the rebate/prize?" and he says "Sure!"... would it be wrong then?
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Man, I don't want to say it's wrong, but I'm afraid it is. If you let the accountant guy know and they say it's ok, then go for it! Of course, I can see the "situational ethics" argument, too. They are stingy with pay and giving you raises, so why not give yourself a "raise of sorts"? I guess in the end, you have to let your conscience be your guide. Does that answer the question? Sorry, I just don't want to say yea or nay since it's really something you have to judge for yourself. I have never been in that particular position, so I'm kind of unsure about how to handle it. I hope you make the right decision, my friend.
No way... it has nothing to do with my pay, or raises... I could care less about that and am happy to HAVE a job at all. I almost look at it as one of the perks of my position. But I understand Sip, I would not be able to say right or wrong either.
I guess if I have to ask, then I think it is wrong, and shouldn't do it eh?
Im trying to think of a non-wrong equivalent of this situation.
Oh, sorry, my friend. Didn't mean to project the "stuff for pay" thing. It's a tough nut to crack. We get all kinds of ethics training as contractors. We aren't supposed to accept "gifts" or "compensation" of any type from vendors. But, you, my friend, have had no such briefings. You could, therefore, claim blissful ignorance and continue receiving perks. Like I said, it comes down to your own conscience, I think. So, really, it's probably ok in the after-analysis? *shrug*
How about this as a non-wrong equivalent:
You work at a restaurant and one of the perks you get is free meals. Nobody tells you how many free meals per day you may eat or how many people may eat these meals with you. So, you and your family and friends feast together on food from the restaurant 3-4 times a day. Since you were simply instructed that you get free food, there's really nothing wrong with it.
I’m torn over this one being the dean of all things swag. If you are purposefully seeking the purchase of an item(s) just for the perk and are blatantly raising budget questions then I think you’re up to no good. If the school approves of the overages and it will be benefiting the school in the long run and you get approval then jump at it. Also you’re at a private school so I’m not guessing they’re stretched for cash but if you were in a public school and 30” LCD would go a long way. I don’t think an iPod is going to be missed but an actual television is useful to the school and I think almost taking an opportunity away from the school.
I think you need to ask who ever is in charge of budgets about the perks you’re getting. I don’t think you have to spell out everything in the world to the guy but maybe set a usefulness standard. The school isn’t going to use an iPod so take it home. The school can use a new TV let them have it.
The reason companies give this crap away is to build loyalty to a given customer. You’re the purchaser for the customer but ultimately still not the customer. The customer is actually the students buying the service of the computers for use through their educational program.
It’s a thin line to walk pal but I know that you’ll do the right thing. I mean if you ask the budget guy if you can flat out keep any of the rebates and he says yes take it all and sleep peacefully. Hope they never audit the receipts and wonder why the invoice says 30” LCD television.
Just my two cents…
the resturant equivalent inst gonna work because when I worked at TGI Fridays, they allowed you one 50% off meal a day... so that is spelled out for you.
For some reason, it just doesn't fel wrong to me. Simply because the items ill be buying, while more expensive otherwise, are good products, and fit the needs here. I mean, I bought a printer from a supplies a few weeks ago, and they gave me a tin full of cookies! I ate them all and only shared them with my assistant. Should I have provided them to the rest of the school...?
While it doesnt feel wrong, I cant help but keep asking about it. I suppose one email to the accountant and ill have my answer... but funny thing is if he says "no, you cant keep it" then I will end up buying the cheaper models...
more thoughts...
when vendors come to town, they want to take me out to eat and pay for my lunch. Should I tell them just to give me the cash and let me put the cash back in works budget?
the vendor wants to please me, since I do all the buying. Likewise, isnt that really what a company is doing when they offer the buyer a rebate? Why give the rebate to the janitor? He doesn't do the technology buying. I do, hence, isn't it safe to assume that they are trying to 'bribe' me into buying more of their stuff?
Im really wanting brew to get into this, this is turning into a typical discussion he and I would have back in the day
Someone giving out laptops? I'll take one.
I think I side with everyone else. Normally I look for the rebates at work, but ocassionally something will come along with a good price and a perk. I have no problem deciding on the perk. Mind you I'm not paying 2K+ extra to get the perk only a $20 or $30 increase...ok and normally the perks stay in the office.
Well, here I am and I gotta say, ethically, it is wrong. And just because they haven't been given an ethics class, or been given strict rules on this behavior, doesn't make it any less wrong.
You are a purchaser for the school, it isn't your money you are spending, its the schools. Thus any perks received from the spending belongs to the school.
As far as items like the TV or the Ipod, those are items that could be used by the school. What school doesn't need more TVs? Even the Ipod could be used by a teacher to bring in music, books on tape (or mp3) interviews, etc. Or even buy an attachment in which it could be used to record.
As far as a box of cookies or a free lunch those are expendable, consumable goods. The school can't feasibly use a tin of cookies, and it would be foolish to ask a company to cut you a check for $15 bucks instead of lunch. Besides the lunch includes the rep trying to sell you their services.
Your arguments that you would purchase similar items don't float. Spending extra money of the schools so you can get some cool crap is totally wrong, wrong, wrong. If you wouldn't normally spend the extra $$ for the product then there is not way to justify doing just so you'll get a free TV.
If you purchased some items from a company and they gave you a $200 discount, would you create a purchase order for the normal ammount and pocket the $200? What if it was a $200 rebate and they sent you a check?
Ask the accountants, or your supervisor. If they say its cool then great. But I suspect you will get a resounding no.
Mullins makes a great point. Whether or not you think its ok, someone else may not. Sooner or later someone will find something out. Invoices usually do carry something about the big free items they are giving you. Or someone may see the big friggin TV come into your office and then wonder where it went. And on and on. That someone just might not like you so much and make an issue of it.
Yeah, but since it's a private school and have private funding, they could have used the ipod for a raffel. Or like Brew said, for the class room. A music teacher could use it, or an early childhood teacher who does lots of singing and dancing and finger plays.
Jamison, I think that if you're questioning it this much, you allready know the answer. I think you're trying to justify it to yourself, and that's cool because you're Jamison and I love you.
What would Jesus say?
ill just ask the accountant if he thinks it is okay for me to keep cool rebates. If he says yeah, I will do it. He likes me since one summer, I asked him i fI could start spending my fical year money one month early... i told him if he said yes, then I would purchase him a 19 inch LCD monitor for his office... needless to say, he now has a 19 inch LCD monitor.
He also likes me because he is OCD and I fill out my POs preperly and staple them at just the right angle...
is it considered gambling if i buy a candy bar solely based on the fact that it is having a contest and I hope to win thus said prize?
I don't like having 13 posts, so I'll say something. I hope the accountant says, "OK" Jamison!
Jamison you've bribed someone into allowing you to get what amounts to a bribe for yourself. Those are the wrong words, maybe but that’s what it sounds like. If you let me do X I'll kick this X back to you. I think you're on the way to becoming a White House Lobbiest!
Di's idea about a raffle is pretty sound too. the school can use all the physical stuff, lunches and disposable items arejust that but you should always accept an offer of lunch. Everyone has to eat.
Another story from Scripps is one of resentment. There is a clique of producers who do a lot of home renovation shows and with out question when the list of renovations is complete the discuss who should have what done to their homes. What’s left over typically goes to friends and family. Yeah you’ve got to find people to do this stuff for but the nepotism is sickening and the folks in production who could actually use the help of getting something fixed will always get over looked. If you let this info get known and like Brew said a LCD id delivered to your desk and then disappears you could have the same sort of resentment festering your direction as the folks here do.
I was just thinking about this, Jamison, and I think that if you got the free LCD TV and gave it to me, all would be fine. Joking, of course. I don't know, man. Mullins does have a good point about the resentment aspect. But, if it were me, I'd have a REALLY hard time passing up a 30" LCD...I mean that's just too sweet!
first, it would never come to my office because the rebate would ask for a mailing address, which would be my house. Secondly, it would never appear on an invoice because it would be delivered like 8 weeks later...
But, good news my friends, here is a brief synopsis of an email I sent our accounting dept, bear in mind, i am shortening it, I did go into deep explanation, and the moral/ethical delima it presents to me:
ME: (I explain that suppliers will offer me rebates to buy their products... shortening it here)
Example; I bought two items from CDW a few months back. To my delight, I found that if I filled out all the necessary paperwork and waited 8 weeks, i would get an ipod shuffle (Retails for about $90)
So I did so and got the ipod and gave it to my wife. All free, and nothing on any invoice or PO you may have gotten from me. So, was I wrong to keep the ipod for myself?
I ask this because I have been solicited by HP to buy 5 of their switches... I had planned and budgeted on buying 7 for the new school year, I bought 2 this summer, so we need 5 more. These HP switches are a bit more robust than the switches I planned on buying. The 'rebate' being offered to me is more than a $90 ipod shuffle.
I figured it would be kind of unethical to move on with this without you saying that this is generally okay for me to do.
ACCOUTING: Tough one. It is common business practice to accept items of "nominal value" (the $90 Ipod would be on the border line, but acceptable in my opinion). Anything of more than nominal value would have to be given to the school. That doesn't mean the school can't turn around and give you the item, especially if the school has no need for it.
ME: (exact quote) "So... the school has enough TVs dont you think? No need for another one? Right? So Ill just 'give' the school the TV and ya'll can give it back to me... eh?"
ACCOUNTING: Sounds like a plan to me
ME: "sssssooo... is that a yes? I can take the rebate? "
ACCOUNTING: "I would go for it"
AWESOME! You did the right thing and were rewarded handsomely, my friend! Good job! I want to come over for an LOTR marathon now! SWEET!
Cool beans.
It still feels wierd to me, but as long as he says it's ok.
feels wierd to me too... but, it appears to be okay
i have to admit...the situation seems to be solved, but i wanted to put in my two cents as well. to me, it's like if a customer makes a deposit with cash, as i'm counting the cash, i realize it is $20 over. the customer doesn't realize that it's over, so who's to say i can't just pocket the $20 because the customer thinks they are depositing $100, when they actually sent in $120....i mean, they should of caught it right? WRONG!!! this may be a little bit of a different situation, but since i work with money every day..its the only way i could relate.
because if you pocket the extra cash, the customer is OUT that ammount. If i take the rebate, the company i work for is not out anything at all. The rebate is free, not included in the price... it would actually be more like the customer giving you $20 then, giving you a $2 tip for being so nice to her. Well, maybe not like that, but more like that than the customer giving you too much without them knowing.
I mean, if I was being BILLEd for the rebate then yes, i would give it to my company becasue it is thier money buying it, but since it is free (and i found a supplier that will sell me the items for less than i thought), no one is losing any money.
more more! this is what i mean by text book discussion. I love it.
Aren't you paying more for the items you're purchasing by going with that particular company, though? It's going to cost the school more money to get the perk, isn't it? So, they are sort of paying for it. I guess that's where the ethical part comes in. But, you discussed it with the money man, and he said "Do it!" so it's all above board anyway. Very honest of you, my friend.
i know it is okay for me to do, but it is still fun to discuss...
if ya wanna get technical, the items i would have bought otherwise were bottom of the line, and are a brand name i would only trust with lower-end items or home based items.
SO i guess the company comes out on top.
retail price was $2500 each, but I found a local company that will sell them to me (with an education discount) for $1300 each...
Whether I am at work or at disney world, i can bargin hunt...
I havent told anyone about the russian employee who told me i should take my bathing suit off!
Well, there you go! Getting good quality for good prices. Everyone wins! You should have flashed her! Those crazy Ruskies!
At this point you've legally covered your bases so you have nothing else to do by enjoy the television.
Thate rules. And now you can walk away with a clean heart.
Keep a look out for a free DVD burner, I'm shopping for one.
Is there still the you giving it to the school and they give it back deal? If so who would you give it to? Who makes the decision to give it back? Accounting?
id probably 'give' it to the technology department (that includes me, and... well, me) then give it to myself.
Honestly, if we kept it, accounting woul dhave to report it to insurance, and it woul dbe another thing we'd have to be insured for...
the cool thing about this place is, like if an employee uses a laptop, and they leave, we give them the option of buying the laptop for a steal of a deal. I suppose we would give it to them, but the money they give for it goes to defer insurance costs. Which makes me mad, i coul duse the money in my budget, and that would make sense, but i dont make those calls...
the last guy who left (he had been here for like 6 years) used a laptop for 3 years, and I let him have it for $200. I was told "come up with a fair price" and there ya go.
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