Monday, June 27, 2005

AP compassion

Maybe I don't know enough about the entire situation but I would think a touch of compassion could be found. I just read the article from AP about Bert Thompson's leaving.

I don't know who Brad Harrub is so this is a bit one sided but I thought even, especially in the midst of sin we as Christians are supposed to try and hold up our fallen brothers in Christ. Mr. Harrub seems exceedingly cold to the whole thing. I could see that this (apologetics) is something he's dedicated his life to and finding out that a mentor has worked for God while dealing with "long-term, deep-seated personal sins in his life" could easily be crushing.
The line "But truth is truth—even when one who has been a prominent advocate of that truth succumbs to hypocrisy and fails to apply that truth to himself." Is dismissive and harsh. Maybe they are too close to the fire to realize that Bert is a frail human just like the rest of us and we are all susceptible to Satan’s influences and Gods eternal grace. Sipper like you said it's a long hard road to find your way back into Gods favor but aren't we supposed to help those fallen saints.
Any thoughts?
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7 comments:

JS said...

ya know, this is a tough one.
On one hand, I agree 100%. I have prayed for Burt everyday since I found out this info. I have also prayed for AP and its employees. I've forgiven Burt in my heart.

Hoever, the Bible doesn't beat around the bush like we do in 21st centruy America. I dont know the BCV, but I don know that many books talk of disfellowshipping with those who have had sin in their lives for many many years, being unrepentant of those sins. It is something I doubt %5 of the churches in american even talk about.

Also, like you said, Burt was probably (and I dont know this for sure) a father-like figure to many men, certainly most of the guys at AP. This was a blow to them.

Dave Miller is a fine man, and very knowledgable in many areas (as most of the AP guys are). I think the future of AP, and the work they will do for the word of God, is bright.

6/27/2005 03:34:00 PM
Mat Brewster said...

This is the official document. We have no idea what went on behind the scenes. Here is a company that has just kicked out their founder/president/leading writer/leader and guide because of some sort of ongoing sin. It is a tough spot for them. Gossip is begining to spread about this issue and they needed a statement to squash some of it, while maintaining their ability to stand up for the truth.

These guys are supported by a lot of conservative churches. They've got to show they are hardliners on these types of things, and do some clean up by saying they are dedicated to biblical teachings.

To me it just sounds like any official business memo when a company has experienced scandal. Hopefully things were much kinder in real life.

As far as disfelloshipping, Brad's memo notes that Burt has asked God for forgiveness, thus disfellowshipping shouldn't be neccessary.

6/28/2005 02:34:00 AM
JS said...

I think it is a pretty brave statement. Most weak-hearted people, when someone close to them sins, tend to grow soft of the sin that person commited.

Take unscriptural divorce for example...
Someone can be a hardliner when it comes to what the Bible says, but then their best friend ditches his wife dfor another pretty face, and all of the sudden, that divorse doesnt seem so sinful anymore. Happens alot at several churches in this town.

6/28/2005 07:09:00 AM
bigsip said...

Here is a passage from Luke 17:1-4. It speaks for itself.

He said to the disciples, "It is impossible that no occasions of stumbling should come, but woe to him through whom they come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, rather than that he should cause one of these little ones to stumble. Be careful. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him. If he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in the day, and seven times returns, saying,'I repent,' you shall forgive him."

6/28/2005 08:10:00 AM
bigsip said...

I think this is he verse you mentioned, Jamison...2 Thess 3:6

Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother who walks in rebellion, and not after the tradition which they received from us.

If someone doesn't repent, but continues in sin and will not admit they are wrong, they have a problem with pride and are not going to give. If this is the case, the church has no choice but to withdraw from them since they will continually bring reproach upon the church. In Bert's case, he repented. He has stopped his sinning and is trying to walk in a right way with God. I do think of so many who will not admit their wrongs and are still accepted in a religious sphere. Eventually, as in the case of openly accepting the homosexual lifestyle in "christian" assemblies, this totally nullifies that assembly's right to be called of Christ or of the Bible. That is where withdrawl and disfellowship come in. But, this is only to be used as a last resort after pleading and trying our hardest to convince the brother or sister to admit they are wrong and come back in line with true, Biblical principles.

6/28/2005 08:40:00 AM
Mat Brewster said...

I think one of the problems with disfellowshing people today is that we are just not involved with each other. How many people come to church for the services and then go straight home? How much do we know about their lives? There have been plenty of times I have gone to a church and walked out of the building never having spoken to a single person. With that there is no way for the other members to have any idea the sin exists.

Maybe in a small town could the elders of a church know about the goings on of all its members, but in a larger city and a larger congregation you can forget it. It isn't possible to keep tabs on everyone.

The nature of sin makes it secretive as well, so unless that person is doing something very publicly or announces it to the church we wouldn't know either.

The other issue is that, in general, when somoene begins to fall into repetetive sin, they begin to drift from the church anyway. I believe the church has failed in its mission in this respect. Too often we allow members to drift away. They stop coming wednesday nights, then sunday nights, then alltogether.

When a member begins to drift the elders should be on top of it. Calling, and visiting that person to encourage them back.

When we don't do this by the time we could confront them about a sin they are so far removed a disfelloshipment is worthless. They aren't coming anyway.

6/28/2005 09:05:00 AM
bigsip said...

I think you hit the proverbial nail on the proverbial head, Brew. I am afraid that too many elderships have taken the wrong road, too. Of course, when you consider that the ratio of members to elders at a congregation like Dalraida is 125 to 1, that seems impossible. Of course, that's where we come in. We have personal relationships with people. I know and love you guys. We talk often. We share. If one of us were falling by the way, I would hope we would all know this and encourage the one falling. So too it should be this way at church. Unfortunately, there aren't many people in this world that are blessed with brothers in the faith like we are. Maybe that is something Bert lacked. Living at the top can be lonely if you let it. Perhaps the biggest mistake we can make is singling ourselves out and not forming the supportive, christian friendships so vital to Godly living. I love you guys!

6/28/2005 09:41:00 AM

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