Friday, October 28, 2005

Oh right where art they rebuke?

OK so a friend was on a “Christian” rant yesterday and I called him out hard. I couldn’t sit and go through these rash generalizations massing the Christians who have screwed him over personally and the ones screwing over everyone from Pennsylvania Ave.

Here is one of his points which I think is pretty valid. From day one W has touted his Christian values and a fairly conservative agenda, no worries. 1st term closes on the heels of 9/11 and an active threat of continued terrorism.
Hunkering down under a conservative based, all American, God fearing, American morals, Fight for Freedom banner the second term rolled into office with less than stellar numbers, yet ready to spend some political capitol. The Christian right had utilized and moved in mass to re-elect W with no questions. Christians needed and must have a believer in the white house during these trying times.

Some time later the great white hope of Christian freedoms and smaller government has been riddled with the admission of going to war based on incorrect information, nepotism, cronyism (I’m happy to learn this is an actual word), hovering indictments, botched Homeland Security and FEMA appointments / restructuring and inadequate actions, a surging debt and plunging economy, continued outsourcing, environmental damage and over 2000 solemnly distributed American flag our great Christian leader takes little to no responsibility, when he gets called to the mat he seals records like in the early case of his National Guard duty his pappy got him in TX to prove one way or the other that he actually showed up for work or not. W never actually said one way or another he said he remembered reporting for duty but never said, yes I was there, he simply sealed the records.

Should a Christian choose people with a shady business background and interests to be his VP. Should he have no say in who walks the halls of the white house under his appointees? No he can’t screen everyone but Rove and Libby, really he should have better control over his cabinet. His approval rating is in the tank and still there is no outcry from the Christian supports of the guy. He has lied, sent scapegoats to the slaughter along with unprotected soldiers while his cabinet is involved with enough shady business to be under several different investigations of wrongdoing.

W’s predecessor may have been a horny bastard but he didn’t send children into a unwarranted conflicts and position the American economy atop a financial bubble that wiggles, jiggles, shimmies and quakes at every minor problem.

How does the guy continue to get support from the Christian right? I think that aside from holding the title of most vacationed president in history (undisputable fact) he need to say on vacation, when he is things don’t get as screwed up as when he tries to go back to work.


Brewster said...

Of the people I know who voted for Bush, none of them were particularly pro-Bush but were afraid that putting a democrat into office would lead to more abortions and homosexual rights.

It reminds of, a few years back, when some televangelist (Pat Roberts I think) ran for president. A sunday school teacher told the class she voted for him because of his proclaimed christianity. She admitted that it probably wasn't true christianity, but she felt it was better than anything else.

I think a lot of folks see Bush "witnessing" on the TV and ending his speeches with "God bless you" and figure he shares the same morals as them. The democratic party has been labled as a party of immoral folks who hate christianity.

Bring up the Iraq war and a good number will tell you they don't care that we went in under a lie because Sadaam was a bad man who needed to be ousted.

Things like Haliburton, Bush's own failed business, the Katrina scnadal etc etc etc seem to many to be typica politics. Former presidents like Nixon and Clinton have made a lot of us numb to the scandals.

The dumbing down of the "news" has also played its part. We have so many news sources now and so little news. So much of it, like Hannity and Colmes, Crossfire, Fox and Friends and the like aren't really giving us hard news but pit us against a barage of opinion.

Its big ratings when you pit one extreme opinion against the other. None of this leads to truth. Truth is lost to a three ring circus.

When Bush is blamed for everything under the sun including causing a hurricane and mastermining 9/11 its hard actually listen to folks complaining about the real s**t he's pulled.

Jamison said...

No real comment on your post Mullins, however, you managed to completely lose me after you called american soldiers "children".

Interestingly, and ironically, I was ranting about this just yesterday to someone at work and they noticed this too; The fact that hard core leftists LOVE calling our soldiers "CHILDREN" to try and stir up emotions.

It makes me wanna scream at the TV or radio; "Soldiers are over 18, many have spouces, some have children of their own. ALL ARE ADULTS!!!!"

This tends to drives me nuts. Our military is VOLUNTARY. People join with the knowledge that they MAY have to go to war (gasp!) SHOCKER! "WOW" some children are heard as saying, "You mean this ISNT the boy scouts? MOMMY!!!!" (tounge in cheek you understand)

NO ONE IS FORCING CHILDREN TO GO TO WAR! Say what you want, but don't join the ranks of the leftist nuts who try to toy with peoples emotions by calling men and women, close to our own age "children".

FYI, the avergae age of RECRUITS is 19 to 20... that's NEWBIES, not all of those current serving. The average age of people activley serving in the military is around 26... compared to 19 during Veitnam. 26 may be young to us, but hardly a mindless, stupid, pathedic, zombie of a child, like so many Michael Moores of the world would want us to think.

I go to church with a couple of these midless "children". Yeah, somehow they manage to hold down a successful marriage, some have 1, 2, even 3 kids. They have full time jobs, and I manage to see them at church pretty much everytime I am there. Wow, "kids" today sure are busy :)

sorry.. my rant. Way to stand up for Christianity Mulls. FYI, I didnt vote for Bush because he was religious, I voted for him because someone told me he controls the weather, and I want some snow in alabama this year.

Brewster said...

You are right, the military is voluntary. Anyone who joins needs to understand the possibility of combat. But many join for other benefits and hope and pray that that need won't com e up.

Sip, did you join expecting you might be called up for battle? Did you pray you wouldn't have to?

Someone is forcing them to go to war. Once they sign up they pretty much have to do as told.

No, they aren't children. But war is an awful thing for anyone of any age. Dying on the streets of Baghdad because our President sent you there because of a lie seems pretty crappy to me.

So why did you vote for Bush, Jamison?

Jamison said...

Bush didn't lie. His advisors gave him info, he followed up in that info. Shall we put Saddam back in power so he can rape, murder and steal money from his own people?

I voted for him because he claimed he would reform social security, reform the tax code, put supreme court judges in power that reflected his views and his voters views, prtect the border and protect america. He has only dont the last one. He sucks. But what am I supposed to do? whip out my crystal ball and decide my vote based on what it shows me?

but he doesnt suck because of all this conspiracy theory crap i keep hearing about halliburton, 'bush lied', oil-loving, and got-in-because-of-daddy. He sucks because he promised me something and instead has pandered to the left-wing pussies in the senate so he can stay friends with that drunk kennedy after he leaves office. I mean, WHY???

so crucify him because he is a Christian...

mullinz8 said...

Jamison you are right those men and women in the Middle East right now are NOT children they are however over there because W ordered them there on failsafed and incorrect information which at the time didn’t stand up to the riggers of extreme scrutiny and have since been shot full of holes. Those heroic volunteers had to die for something, sadly that threat of something didn’t actually exist in Iraq.
I think had I been in the same situation I might have done the same thing, it’s just funny how all those folks who feed him that information are still by his side. If made you or anyone gave me information that lead to the death of a soldier or anyone I’d hang your hide from a tree.

Saddam was a dirt bag and horrible person, no question, no argument. There are other places in the world that are equally wretched where the US turns a blind eye because it has no vested interests.

His cronies are not (so that I’ve ever heard) anywhere near touting the same ideals as their boss. I can let him slide because I don’t think he’s fully holding the reigns but the people who he has put in power under him are no good. That is not Christian to me. It’s as though he’s the figure head charging into battle while the guys behind him (as a previously posted write up proved) are willing to do anything to get the upperhand.

How, by the way: “Way to stand up for Christianity Mulls.” is my disagreement with W degrading my support of Christianity? You said it your self he’s sold out to the pussies on the left, why should he have any respect from any Christian?

Jamison said...

my comment "Way to stand up for Christianity Mulls" was actually genuine... I can see how it would appear sarcastic. However, it wasnt. I didnt realize this till you pointed it ou.

Anyone who can stop someone from putting down a Christian in anyway is brave.

bigsip said...

I think everyone's been watching too much "Hannity and Colmes" or something.

I love all you guys, but every time something political comes up, you retell the same rhetoric I've heard a thousand times on TV.

That's why I stopped watching all the cable news crap.

I was in the military during all this stuff and I can tell you that a large percentage of the military was committed and happy to take Hussein down.

Actually, when either extreme side of the issue commented, all of the military folks in the room at the time watching them talk commented on how little they knew and how idiotic they sounded.

I'm not saying that any of y'all have a leg to stand on either way and I understand you each feel like you think you know what's going on because a "news source" informed you.

With all honesty and due respect, you don't.

In fact, none of us do. It's fine to give your opinion and tout the opinions of others, but until you walk a few hundred miles in the shoes of a soldier, sailor, airman, or marine who has given his/her all, you don't know the facts.

I sincerely appreciate that you each care enough to discuss these issues, but if a service member wandered onto the blog, they'd probably think every one of these comments was bogus.

Most of them care nothing about politics. They just want to get the job done. All the clamoring to them is just mindless babbling.

So, let's not use the warriors as arguing points or crutches. Let's just let them do their jobs.

Love you guys, but I have nothing astutely political to render, so I'll stay out of that.

Brewster said...

I'm not saying anything against the soldiers. Those guys stand on a line and say 'not on my watch' I don't question their courage or ability.

The question to me is not whether the soldiers are willing to be there, but should they have been there in the first place.

Before the war, I was against it. The information I had was that Sadaam probably didn't have WMDs. Ok, so my sources were guys ex-somethings or others on NPR. You ask who should we trust national security on; top members of the intelligence community or guys on NPR?

Turns out Bush should have listned to NPR.

Things is whether or not there were WMDs is secondary, to me. I was against the war WMD or not. The UN said wait, send more inspectors. Sadaam was not pointing any missiles at us making threats.

We waged war on a country because they might attack us at some unidentified point. Try killing your neighbor and then telling the cops it was a preemptive attack.

Brewster said...

I still don't understand the christian comment Jamison.

Bush, by our definition, isn't a christian. He hasn't obeyed the gospel. From what I know of his christianity, if anything he is a false teacher.

By his behavior as a president I woulnd't call him any type of christian either.

Being anti abortion and gay rights doesn't make you any more of a christian than being anti murder.

Kerry claimed our religion too.

Jamison said...

Josh, I was feeling the same thing last night thinking about this... everyone got on to me for reading the news too much so I made a vow to stop reading it or listeneing to it for the most part, not I have to get right back into it...

Can we call a time out on this same ole stuff and talk about something lighter? Although, it does keep the riff-raff out lol

Brewster said...

Well, like they say on the usenet boards.

If you wanna talk about something else, bring up another subject.

The fastest way for us to forget this post is to make some more.

Jamison said...

I know this isnt what brew and mullins mean to do, but for some reason, i feel like they bring up topics like this to try and pick on me and try to push my buttons.

Ive felt like this for about 5 or 6 years and to be honest, I am just exhausted with it. I cant debate it, I give up, you guys win.

Lets talk about masturbating or something. I try to put up more topics, but halliburton keeps slipping back into every 5th or 6th blog and it is just so tiresome.

Im not mad... btw lol

bigsip said...

I'm just tired of the same preprocessed drivel I hear everywhere else.

The inherent problem with these discussions is that we all tend to say what we hear.

It seems we could do better than that, but honestly, we can't. So, I won't. I feel like I dishonor the men and women who have fought and died when I discuss their sacrifice in political terms.

I really don't mean to come down on y'all. I just don't like talking about this kind of stuff.

It makes me profoundly sad.

mullinz8 said...

I understand what you’re saying now Jamison, thanks. The guy is giving good, real Christians a bad name in my opinion.

My point isn’t about the soldiers, they are doing their job. My contention is with the guy giving them their marching orders.

mullinz8 said...

The reason I posted this is because I too feel like the soldiers that have died have been dishonored because of the unjust reasons they were involved in a conflict.

Here is the larger point which I skirted in my last post.

As a Christian the agnostic, atheist, and non-believing world is looking at this guy as the whole figurehead of the Christian faith. War, hurricanes, terrorism and the whole lot of messy subjective subjects aside how are we to respond to the appearance of this guy going what he’s going. The point is not politics it’s proselytizing. Again this stems from a conversation I had where a guy , who calls himself a “Christian” is lumping everyone into one giant blender and labeling it “crooked”.

What can be done? What should be done to the hardly credible effigy of Christians and Christianity this man is going to leave in his wake?

bigsip said...

People just have to know not to put their faith and trust in men. Only Christ is worthy of that.

Anyone who sullies the name of Christ or uses it for gain will come to a sad end. I'll let God be the judge and just leave it at that.

Brewster said...

There are a handful of topics that we have been debating since we've known each other.

I think they keep coming up because we're passionate about them, and that they are easily debatable. Look through this blog and you'll notice that these topics are the ones getting the comments.

As much as I liked Sippers church song post, there just isn't that much to comment on. List your fave song and that's pretty much it.

But gambling, man we can talk about that for days.

I admit, sometimes I get tired of these discussions too, but then I write something to keep my end of the debate going.

I'm not ever trying to push your buttons, Jamison. With the Cheney post, it was something I read and that stirred me up. Which then made me want to share it with you guys.

For whatever reason on these topics we have all chosen "sides". Sometimes I post stuff because it seems like a good point for my side.

The master debator in me wants to "win" the debate and that keeps me going.

How about this. If one of these topics is brought up agains and you don't want to talk about it, don't.

I think we can all agree to not keep our side of the argument going if we aren't in the mood for it.

Brewster said...

Mullins, I'd say this is nothing new. Politicos have been besmirching the name of Christ for a long time.

Hello Pope 1 through however many there have been. Ever hear of the Spanish inquisition, the crusades, the witch trials?

This reminds me that in many an online debate about christianity somebody brings up the crusades as a means to prove christianity is bad.

Hello? Who these days thinks the crusades were a good christian move?

Generally I think that the people who are going to let Bush's idea of Christianity be a deterrent to converting, aren't all that interested anyway.

bigsip said...

Well, you were really supposed to list your favorite church songs and WHY they're your faves.

Julianna did a good job of it. She tied her Grandad into it. Of course, most folks just say, "It's got a nice beat and I can do the "Charleston" to it."

Anyway, religious matters of the heart are always going to yeild a big, long discussion. Since they are matters of the heart, it makes us want to discuss them down to their barest essentials.

But, it always comes down to us all saying, "I'm going to live the way I see as best." So, we usually feel like "What's the use?"

But, I grow each time and I think we all do. That's good.

Diana said...

I like the religious discussions more than political discussions. Mostly because I don’t think it matters who’s in the white house. The whole system is screwed up and there’s not much I can do about it, so I just try to live my life with joy.

This has nothing to do with anything, but I want to mention it anyway. I have a friend who is REALLY liberal. She can be such a jerk to me because I’m not. It’s not even that I’m ultra conservative, I just don’t think just like she does. Anyway, she just treats me like I’m an idiot and if we hang out with other people like her, they’ll whisper the whole time about stuff and over explain things to me. Grrr.

Blue skies and rainbows and sunbeams from heaven…..

mullinz8 said...

You’re doing yourself a disservice if you don’t stand up for your self Diana.

If you know why you’re different on subjects not just “I think she has this pov” but “I feel this way because…” then you have discussion points.

Until you prove that you can back up and defend your sentiments there is a chance you’re going to continue to be a closed minded dork. Christianity is NOT a spectator sport. Come on girl stand tall, take a stand and kick her in the face, figuratively with facts, reason and logic of course.

If she’s really talking about you to other people, especially right in front of you there may not be enough quantifiable reasons to call this person a friend.

Brewster said...

sounds like she isn't much of a friend. Stand up for yourself. If she is nice to you when you're alone confront her with it.

Diana said...

Oh, I stand up for myself and for my beliefs. I'm really good at articulating why I feel the way I feel about things. She just classifies everyone who's conservative/Christian as being closeminded, so it doesn't really matter what I say. Her parents (esp. her dad) can be that way too. Some people are just like that. I don't really see her anymore. Not to have an ego or anything, I sort of think she might be jealous, because I actually DO think about things more than she does. She's liberal because she thinks it's cool. There's nothing wrong with it, but you need to be able to support your opinions and she can't but I can.

bigsip said...

Liberal folks can be just as closed-minded if not more than conservatives.

Atheists are WAY more closed-minded than most Christians from what I've seen.

It takes WAY more faith to be an atheist, too. In my view anyway.