Sunday, October 23, 2005

Depression

Today in chuch, Tony said that there was a study done and out of all Christian churches, the church of Christ had the highest rates of depression.
He mentioned a reason why, but I want to hear your thoughts.
Discuss.

30 comments:

Jamison said...

my guess is that, unlike progressive and denominational churches, we like to keep our problems inside and not share them with others. I guess we fear our fellow brethren will talk bad about us. Some will, others will stand up and say "I have the same problem, lets help each other".

While progressive churches may worship unscripturally, they do alot of other stuff that we, as a church, should strive towards (socially speaking).

Brewster said...

I'd like to see the figures first.

bigsip said...

That could be a "bumstat".

But, I feel the same way Jamison does on it. We are supposed to talk about our problems and support each other.

But, it sounds like a stat that should not be easily trusted. For instance, it might be that coCers are more likely to seek help than folks in denominations and that the general public is depressed, but don't ask for help like coCers do.

Stats are tricky like that and not necessarily scientific. I have seen many depressed Christians, though.

Jamison said...

eh, good points... preachers do have a tendancy to throw out made up or rather "heard third hand" stats to support their sermon more... I would do it too.

Diana said...

I looked around. I didn't see anything on the web that proved it.
His reason was because, opposed to denominational churches, we actually care about whether or not we're sinning. We feel guilty more. When I think of some of the people I know in the church, it make since.

Brewster said...

I am suspect of the stats, but to play a long. I don't think I agree with the preachers idea. I think most denominations care about sin. We'll disagree with them on what exactly is and isn't a sin, but I think they don't want to sin.

I think Jamison hit on something, especially in light of a very recent controversy where I understand a young man was told not to tell anyone so that it could be kept within the church.

I also would say it has something to do with the way we preach sin. Churches of Christ are very good at really delving into the Word and understanding the dos and don'ts. But we're not so good at rejoicing.

How many publications are written about sin? How many sermons do you hear about doctrine? Compare this to sermons/essays on grace.

We hammer sin in really good, but we're almost afraid to stand up and shout about Gods love and grace.

Jamison said...

fyi... the secret i wasnt supposed to tell yall so long ago was that chuck is looking for a new job. I assumed he would read the blog and eventually say "Yeah, i dont care if anyone knows" then we have lunch and he is talking to me about his wifes new job in florida and they they are moving there in feb.

He is telling me all of this like I knew about it and that it is no big deal...

the man must think that some daily news artile is printed up abotu him and that i read it everyday...

CHUCK WE KNOW NOTHING! TELL US!!!!

bigsip said...

I knew he was looking for a new job, but not that Jodi found one and they're moving in Feb!

Way to go, Chuck/Jodi!

I'm guessing it'll be close to her family/his family.

If he doesn't blog/email more after that, we'll never know what's going on with them...

midnitcafe said...

So is this forecasting the demise of Ap? Or is is more like the McCowns want more stable ground to work upon?

bigsip said...

I don't know, but I'd say it's probably several things.

AP, family, not liking Montgomery, Jodi not liking her job...

These are all things i've heard them mention repeatedly.

Jamison said...

i feel miffed that he doesnt tell any of us and when he does tell me, he acts like it is no big deal and as if I should have known!

I mean, not really miffed, just, like, id expect him to tell us all by now!

bigsip said...

Classic Chuck.

mullinz8 said...

Ok I’ve had a bit of time to chew this idea and I have my two cents worth. Depression is reported in epidemic proportions and is considered to be one of the largest killers in the world by 2020 according to a BBC News report from a few years ago.

I think one needs to define what is considered depression. The AMA has clinically defined depression as a disease thusly making it treatable ONLY by chemical assistance (little known fact: a “disease” as defined by the AMA is only curable by an AMA, FDA certified chemical treatment, I’ve got too many references to back this up easily but it’s true and very researchable).

That being said one can be clinically depressed and still be a Christian, one can also be simply blue for a while.

I would debate the idea of depressed individuals coagulating within the churches of Christ in a second. As Brew observed, we c.o.C folk do take our sin very seriously. For us it’s a reflection of our relationship directly to Christ and there are no 15 “hail Mary’s and pennants” and on our way. I think many consider, likely as it should be, that we’ve not only let our self down but God as well. With that perspective I would say that guilt may consume the c.o.C in far greater numbers than actual depression. I would concede that guilt can cause one to be down on them self but not out right depressed enough for the AMA to medicate.

IN a nut shell I’d say the guy who made such a blanket statement, though he himself was a c.o.C class leader is cracked. A statement like that should have numbers behind it and a clear definition of what depression is in that article. Depression has different meanings depending on what initials are placed behind one’s name.

By the way my family is rampant with depression both clinically and conversationally I've had my faith share of debats on the topic, I'm an expert I've just delt with it.

bigsip said...

I have several people very close to me (as many of us do) who have been diagnosed with some form of depression.

They take medicine for it, just like a person with diabetes needs medicine. It is a medical condition and has proved through studies.

I agree with you Mullins. Those were presumptuous numbers and not true stats.

While personal guilt is going to be a part of the Christian life, we have to realize it isn't all bad. It helps us remember history and not repeat it. We feel it because we're imperfect, but itt helps us to seek and find Him who can perfect us through His cleansing blood.

That's comforting to me.

Jamison said...

but, mentally speaking, a jewish person can feel NO guilt after he fasts on Yom Kipper... fast for 24 hours and all your years sins are wiped clean...

same with catholics, confess, say hail mary and you are done.

But with us, though we ark for forgiveness and we get it, there is no actual, physical 'duty' or 'task' to perform.

I think the mind works in such a way that if it has to physically do something for bad deeds, it doesnt feel so bad... all we do is pray and we are clean...

maybe the brain has issues with that.

bigsip said...

I've heard of several coCers fasting and doing other acts of atonement and cleansing to come closer to God.

It's more of an act of self-denial and trusting in God to fulfill your needs. Putting away physical things and concentrating on prayer can be a very humbling, spiritual, and even trancendent experience.

Diana said...

So, you think depression is ONLY caused by chemical imbalances?

Jamison said...

no way, but a chemical imbalance can cause lifes trials to affect you more. Or, perhaps, many trials and tribulations can create chemicals in your brain to go nuts...

then again, most folks who went through lots of trials (like, old people e.g. depression, wars, etc) tend to be the strongest people, mentally...

Diana said...

Hm. I'm strong mentally but I still have my issues. So, it's debatable.
p.s. Tony's our preacher, for those who don't know

mullinz8 said...

Do I think that one must have a chemical imbalance to be depressed? No way.

I think for every sound, reasonable mind in the AMA there is a total crack pot that enjoys writing more than his clearer thinking fellows.

I would guess that depression is more times than not mental rather than chemical. There are those who have chemicals running through their bodies in vastly incorrect proportions, I think those folks are a minority.

The AMA some time ago said that Depression is a disease. Recently they stated that anything which is a disease only has a chemically treated cure.
Subsequently this is why one year ago Acid-Reflux was a problem and now it’s a disease. Now that it’s been classified as such pharmaceutical companies can copyright their meds and increase revenue. I dare you to research the patenting of the “wonder drug” Paxil and the reasoning behind it. I’ll give you a hint it has a lot to do with the simplest of the seven deadly sins.

I think that a lot of “depressed” people could benefit from the helpful ear and heart of a few good friends.

Sister, everyone has issues. Some people have theirs pinned to their sleeve while others have theirs stashed in a hard box under six feet of earth. It’s not healthy to hold on to any of them too long but that longer you carry them the easier it is to keep holding on and harder it is to uncurl your fingers and let them drop.

bigsip said...

I think chronic depression is generally considered a chemical imbalance and is treatable.

Acute depression is usually brought on by an event, but you can chemically train your body to be depressed after that point. Most kids who are abused will hold onto the guilt and bad feelings and be depressed as kids and throughout life. I have an uncle who's a good example of this.

Anyway, psychiatrists and doctors are finding more and more information about how the mind works and how to help people.

Some folks are more susceptible to depression, bipolarism, etc. Also, drugs and alcohol are believed to play a large role in making people who have chemical imbalances even more whacked-out. The extra chemicals make the highs higher and lows much lower.

It's all very interesting, scary, exciting, and sad...

Diana said...

Are you angry with me, Mullins?
I'm sorry.

bigsip said...

Di, I'm pretty sure Mullins isn't anywhere close to angry with you or any of us.

He was just answering the question with that old Mullins verve he's so famous for.

It definitely wasn't directed toward you.

Jamison said...

I read Mullins post about 3 times trying to find out where he may be mad at you and couldnt find it...
however, I could have not read one word of it and known he wouldnt have been mad at you...

Jamison said...

I also searched the world over and thought I found true love, but you found another and PTTHHHH you were gone...

good ole Hee Haw

bigsip said...

Whar oh whar, are you tonight...Why did you leave me here all alone?

Man, I love Hee Haw!

mullinz8 said...

Di, I'm not angered with you at all, sorry if I gave that impression.
I just don’t like the AMA much.

Modern medicine is a mess to me these days. There are paper trails from political funded events directly to the CEO’s office at a number of pharmaceutical companies and I think that’s wrong. It’s wrong for a group of doctors to turn something simple into a disease so they can extend a copyright on a medicine.

Some people have real problems that simple changes in diet and lifestyle could fix. People are lazy; doctors recognize that and turn those issues into life debilitating problems when the shouldn’t be.

Others really need medicine that medical research companies are holding on to or are calling crack pot. This instills fear into people who look for alternatives to sustain their lives. (this goes far beyond medicinal pot research, it’s only a blip on the radar.)

bigsip said...

Some folks are good at seeing a problem and doing something in their lives to fix it.

Other's aren't or are so messed up they can't or have serious medical problems.

I'm sure the AMA has its issues, but mental issues are ALL different and have to be handled on an individual basis.

I just remember the whole Tom Cruise thing recently where he said people don't need medication and it could all be fixed with diet and exercise. He generalized and it got him in some trouble.

Anyway, I agree with Mullins. Some issues can be fixed with some lifestyle change, discipline, and counseling. Some folks need shock treatment.

mullinz8 said...

I personally love hooking up the car battery to the old scrote and cranking the caddie a few times. It really gets me going

bigsip said...

Wouldn't Vy AgRa be easier...

(I know that's not how it's spelled, just trying to beat the SpAmbOts).