Wednesday, August 01, 2007

HP7: Spoiler Warning!!!

OK, Jamison gave us the go-ahead to discuss HP stuff within the comments. On your mark, get set, Expeliarmus!!!


Mat Brewster said...

Ok jamison, don't read.

Well I'll say I was mostly right. Harry didn't die, Snape was good, Sirius returned in ghost form. Dumbledore didn't come back to life, but he did come back in a vision or whatever and acted just like he did and wasn't really ghost like so it was pretty much like he was alive.

I like the book. It was pretty much what I wanted. I would have enjoyed some more out of the secondary characters, but I understand that all the other books were leading up to a more main three kind of experience.

I wish we had seen more of how Lupin and Tonks died, but the book was already overlong. Actually she could have cut some other stuff out and given us that. Honestly I've never been that interested in Voldemorts back story and she always writes way too much about. Same goes with the pensieve thing. Cool idea but too many words spent in other peoples thoughts.

When Harry sort-of died I thought in my head 'well sip was right' and then kept reading. Like I think I said I wasn't ever really against him dying I just didn't think he would. It was a good trick to make us think he died, but I'm not sure how great a piece of writing it really is. Alittle bit sappy if youask me.

Snape was a little short changed too. Instead of seeing him in the pensieve I would have preferred actually seeing his character try to help potter, being found out and then dying. Like letting Voldemort see he was on the right side.

Um, yeah thats enough for now.

kermitgrn said...

this really could have waited a little while longer. I have not read what you guys have commented, but you could have done a poll so that those of us who were reading could get involved in the discussion before it got stale...NOT FAIR!!!!

bigsip said...

The word that characterizes the way I felt about the book overall is “nonplussed”. When I finished, I had a “so what” feeling that almost made me feel numb. Who cares that Tonks and Lupin died? Wormtail? For goodness sake…Dobby? I mean, where was the emotional intensity? Where was the sacrifice? The only death I felt even the slightest twinge of sadness about was the freaking owl! When Moody died, I thought to myself, “I could count his dialogue sentences (as the REAL Moody) on my hands.
OK, I know I’m laying out a bit of a rant, here. But, I thought the story overall was pretty lame as far as emotional power goes. Then there’s the whole killing Harry and bringing him back thing. Had it been just about any other character (Dumbledore for instance) it wouldn’t have been nearly the cliché she made it. It was just all too easy. The whole Wormtail strangling himself…too easy. Dobby showing up in their cell in the nick of time to save them…too easy. There were no twists and turns; no unforeseeable circumstances that weren’t telegraphed way ahead of time in the text.
I guess I’m just a little perturbed about it since it left me entirely unimpressed. I think Rowling passed, but just barely. She gets a D from me.

bigsip said...

btw, Chuck. i thought you weren't an HP reader. sorry, man.

Mat Brewster said...

Yeah sorry Charles. But we did ask in a previous post and there were no objections.

I get what you are saying Josh and generally agree. Some of the "too easys" especially the various rescues didn't irritate me as much because Rowling has always done that. Everytime Potter gets into a jam, something comes a long to save him.

Dobbys death made me sad, but I'm a sentimental old fool. The rest were almost too incidental. The emotional impact was robbed because we didn't see the manner in which they died.

bigsip said...

There was also the lack of real, solid character development. While Rowling is a good story-teller, this is where her weakness shows.

I guess that's why I wanted a true death in the story, either of HP himself or another main character. The death of DD, for instance, was powerful because she had developed that character and made him important to the other characters and the reader.

But, in this final book, all she did was a Gene Roddenberry and kill off the "red shirts".

I think she wound up making what could have been a lasting emotional and philosophical breakthrough into a lackluster finale.

mullinz8 said...

Come on now what were you expecting. It was a good simple story and tied together very nicely. I think if you’ve not figured out who all the characters were in maybe the first six books figuring out who these folks were in this book was going to be a wash.

When DD died it was something of a shock to people because for as much as literature has taught us the mentor always dies. The bad guy and all his history I think were there to show us how truly twisted he was.

Still there was too much that was passed over like third tier character development. I hate to think that JKR would do this but I think she upped the body count a bit because she could. There were a lot of other people she could have killed and didn’t that would have been more effective.

In an interview JKR stated she had planned on killing off Mr. Weasley but didn’t. Maybe she should have. This would have made a good dynamic considering there would have been plenty of ways Ron could have blamed Harry for the death.

Anyway I thought it was a great read and thoroughly enjoyed it. The only thing I really hated was the Epilogue. It should have ended right before those pages.

I will miss the series but am looking forward to introducing it to my boys along side of the LOTR books and a few other classics.

Mat Brewster said...

I think the last one was going to be disappointing to many, it almost had to be. The mere fact that it is the conclusion of the whole saga makes it disappointing in a way.

To me it wasn't awesome, but neither were any of the books. It was good, it was enjoyable, it was pretty much what I expected.

About the characters dying, if she had chosen no one to die then it wouldn't be realistic as it was war. If nobodies died then it would be even more star trekkie.

But yeah, she should have let us seen their deaths a little better, not for more background on the characters, but learning they died second hand and only seeing the mourning briefly was kind of lame.

Though I do understand how this story was more Harry centric than the rest, and we needed to follow him on his quest.

Actually, honestly I wouldn't have minded if she didn't have a mini quest in this book like she has had in all the end. A good chasing after Voldemort would have been fine in my book.

I've read a lot of complaints about the epilogue, and it was kind of lame, but I think she needed to give her fantaticals something about what happens to their heroes.

Ryan F. said...

Football season can't get here fast enough...

mullinz8 said...

Football... What's that? Quidditch is the new sport we're taking up in the Mullinz house. I just hope I can find somewhere large enough to play.

lilsip said...

I guess I'm a fanatical because I liked the epilogue. Although it did dilute the power of the ending a bit.

I was frustrated with a lot of the too-simple escapes and with some of the exposition- you know, show, don't tell. But overall I really enjoyed the book. The fight scenes were awesome! I can't wait to see that first Order/Death Eater fight-in-the-air on the big screen.

bigsip said...

But, the whole final fight scene between Harry and Voldemort was so anticlimactic to me. I expected it to be freaking amazing like the cool scene between Voldemort and Dumbledore. There were just so many opportunities Rowling had to make things better and more powerful. Unfortunately, she didn't take them... But, overall, the bookwas ok, just like the rest. They'll never be asgreat as The Chronicles of Narniaor LOTR, though.

BTW, did anyone notice the scriptural references?

"The last enemy that will be destroyed is death"

There was also a passage about love I believe...

MyMom saw JKR being asked about these refson Dateline. JKR said something along the lines that she used these passages from the perspective that she wantstobelieve in something or someone beyond ourselves,but isn'tquite there yet. She was using the passages as a way to get Harry (and the reader)to think outside of the books and life.


Diana said...

I haven't read it, but Charlie has told me the entire plot, upon my request. I'm trying to get caught up on the books, I just finished Prisoner today.

I was floored when I learned about Snape's love of Lily. That was a shock, to me. From what I did read from skimming, it will make a good movie. It's like the Quidditch matches. I never like reading about them, but I like watching them in the movie. That's how the memory and battle sequences will be. I'm very sad the series is over. Especially because I have a HUGE crush on Harry. ;)

Jamison said...

Quick notes from me:
Book wasnt her best. The middle was way too long, drwan our, repeatative, and the reading-within-reading gets old fast. She makes up spells, it seems, to get her either out of a sticky situation, or to end a chapter faster. I mean, fiendfire? come on! Way too much of an easy-out Rowlin. I really feel that this was not her best book, and for some reason, it FELT like it left some questions unanswered, though I cna not think of which ones. Th emiddle got old. Lets go here, oh no, we were tricked! (multiplied by 3) Also, how much polyjuice postion can you take?

The Gringotts scene and escape was very cool. Snape is the hero of the series I think. I knew all along that he was innocent, but had no idea how much his innocence was based on his love for Lily. KellieJ pointed out a line to me in the book that is, in my opinion, the best line in the entire series. Snapes last words: "Look.. at... me..." At first I thought "Oh, a kickback to Oculmency lessons." But no, he wanted to see Lilys eyes one last time before he died.

Dumbledore did not come back, i guess that is okay with me. Felt right, but it was really awesome to see him again, the exchange between him and harry was a great chapter. And i admit i was starting to hate the guy, until we met again. he is hard to hate.

AH, and how happy i was to be right! My wife will attest to this, when I came to the line, I said it: "I KNEW Harry was a horcrux!!!"

The deaths in the book were fitting. Come on, she is a kids book author. You cant go killing the main character. The deaths in the book were some-what weak, but very much loved, characters.

Over all, I did love the book. I still am on a snape-was-innocent high and the scenes of him from 9 years old till days before his death make me love that character even more.

I feel very sorry for the movie production company that will be making this film. They have dug themselves a deeper hole with each movie, and this one will be impossible to not disappoint people. The climax will be the hogwarts battle which will be cool and will be extremely over exagerated in the movie, but oh well.

Before Harry died, I too, was convinced this was it. I felt that it was very sweet when he said "Does it hurt" to his friends and family that 'came back'.

Oh Brew, me too, I would have LOVED to have seen Snape SAVE Potter and died for him, just like him mom died for him. Would have been perfect.

the 19 years later chapter, kindda cheesy, but perfect for her main audience.

Sip, I kind of felt very "so what"-sih too at the end. I mean, when the LOTR books were over, I cried. Nothign spectacular ended at the end, just Sam saying "Well, I'm back" but something about it. I literally covered the last word in the HP7 book so I wouldn't read it when I came to the last opening. I heard Rowlin changed the last word hours before sending it off to be published, i was waiting for a big final word! And it was "All was well."..... huh????

I also expected i would cry AT LEAST once. and only teared up when Harry was ABOUT to die. DObby was a weak character to die. I hated to see it happen. And Fred, I loved the guy, but his death too was anti-climatic.

I do agree with Mullins, it was a good at bring the story together. But look folsk, she wanted to finish this. She has been at it since the mid 90s writing and she wanted to get this thing to the publisher, cash her million-dollar check, and get to living life... I would have too.

I wanted to see more of Malfoy turn good.

bigsip said...

The more i discuss and think about the book, the more disappointed i feel. i just feel gyped. oh well, it wasn't a horrible end to the story, but definitely not great in my opinion.