Wednesday, January 18, 2006

Color Blind

Mine and Jamison's lovely wives went to a ladies' prayer meeting last night.

They had some food and talked and such, then all sat around together and talked about their issues, sharing what their needs were and such.

During the discussion, they began to talk about what their kids watch on TV and how so much is garbage.

Being of good social conscience, one of the ladies mentioned such shows as Will and Grace which promotes a homosexual lifestyle. There were mentions of Brokeback Mountain and the like.

But, then came a real zinger. One of the ladies mentioned that her daugher was watching a cartoon, the name of which was not mentioned. Suddenly, she asked her daughter to turn off the TV and not watch that show. She then asked her daughter, "Do you know why I asked you to turn it off?"

Her daughter responded, "Yeah, cuz that black boy liked that white girl."

The lady then said that was right!

This blows my mind.

Can Christians really be Christians if they think inter-racial dating/marriage is a sin?

Rachel said the room got very quiet after this comment, so obviously, there was disagreement.

I find this attitude between blacks and whites disheartening.



Jamison said...


That is horrible! I've never heard of such stupidity in todays world much less right here in my own church!

I have so much to day on this, but i am starving as I have been working very hard today and no time to stop and eat, so I shall eat... but this blows my mind... I wont ask who it is because if I do, they will consume me everytime i go to church and i wont be able to worship properly in my mind.

bigsip said...

Sorry, I really didn't mean to upset you, man.

I couldn't believe it when Rachel was telling me about it last night.

Rachel said she almost asked the person, "Would you say that if (a black member at Dalraida) were here?"

I wish she had asked that.

It really flew all over me!

Jamison said...

I can see nothing unscriptural about marrying a person of another race.
The NT never speaks of it and only talks about marrying someone of another faith or belief... and the Bible even says thats cool as long as you can convert them!

that is sooooo 1950s. But in high school, i ahd friends that beleived it was a biblical topic! they sited the old testement though...

bigsip said...

The OT stuff that people use to support this myth has to do with being outside the Isralite tribes.

But, if someone were to become a proselyte, they were fine.

Even then it was about being a spiritual member, not physical.

I always go back to the passage where Paul rebukes Peter for not associating with the Gentiles.

To me, this is the best example FOR coming together and celebrating diversity in the church.

I just hope more people leave that silly old segregationist mindset and get on with their christian lives.

bigsip said...

TTo tell the truth, I really don't think this is the pervading attitude at Dalraida.

There are just some folks who are still afraid to accept people who are different from them.

Whe it comes to your child (and especially a female child) a parent can become protective to the point of insanity.

Jamison said...

ok, now that ive calmed down a bit, Ill respond soundly.

It all goes back to ones heart.

If someone feels this way because they think Black folks are "dirty" or "yucky" then yes, I think it is a sin. Jesus would not have felt this way.

However, can an "invented" sin be sinful? What I mean is, if I think that drinking Coke is sinful, yet I don't go around preaching that to people and dont condem people for it, I guess that isnt all that bad, right? Im just dumb. But being dumb isnt a sin.

However, if I condemn people for it and tell them they are going to hell unless they stop drinking Coke, then I might say that is a sin and doing nothing to further the work of Christ.

On the flip side, we are supposed to teach the truth to others. So, if this person at church thinks marrying a black person is sinful, and they arent preaching that to us other dumb white folks, then I guess they are sinning because they are keeping salvation to themselves, somethign c of Cers are good at...

Jamison said...

...and PLEASE tell me there were no visitors there...

please tell me that.... even if it is a lie, tell me there were no non-christians there.

Jamison said...

Sorry to comment so much, but it makes me think of another question:

What are WE supposed to do?

We now know we have someone in our church who may find black folks repulsive. Or, at the very least, a gateway to a sinful lifestyle should their daughter mary one.

We also have many black folks at our church. This person is liable to cause division in the church or cause an uproar because of their "spiritual" beleifs.

I certainly hope they will keep their 1950's ideas to themselves, but now all our wives know about it, and like it or not, women talk. Someone is bound to let it fly.

So prety soon, about 100 people will know about this. Do we approach this person and ask them why they think this?

bigsip said...

As far as I know, there were no non-Chiristians there.

But, obviously, it wasn't well-received.

I'm still mortified by the statement, though.

As a member of the church there, I hope she doesn't spread that attitude around.

It would be devestating and divisive on a huge scale.

bigsip said...

I actually wonder if Rachel might speak to her.

The biggest surprise is who the person is!

I couldn't believe this person would say something like this.

But, I'll keep it to myself on here. If later, you wish to know, then I can tell you.

You might want to ask Larissa about it, too. She was there and could gie you a better idea about what was said and how it was said.

tnmommieof2 said...

i feel the same way you all do...
but what's interesting is my upbringing tells me it is a sin!!

we actually had a class in this very topic at church when i was in h.s. b/c two of the gals in the youth group were supposedly dating
or at least "hanging around" folks
of a different race.

it was taught by a former elder, and as far as he could prove to us, there wasn't anything to be found that said it was scripturally
wrong. he basically summed it up by saying that it was ok as far as the Bible was concerned..but he wouldn't want anyone at that particular church dating someone of a different race.

now, i had a cousin who dated someone african american and she was practically disowned by the family. i know i grew up in the deep south, with deep southern values...but i have to draw the line here. my own parents think its a sin, and i've asked them time and time again to find bcv to tell me why it is actually a sin.

i just hope that if one of my boys decides to date outside their race someday my parents don't disown them....because it would be a horrible thing to happen. i just don't know if my dad could handle it or not....its all very sad..
and 1950s....

bigsip said...

It really is sad.

I can tell you right now that there's nothing Biblically wrong with dating or marrying a person of a different race.

It's all based on the fears and assumptions of people who think their children will become something they didn't make them.

I say, as long as the other person is a Christian and upholds Christ in their life always, I'm all for it!

Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight.

Jesus loves the little children of the world.

Diana said...

First of all, I love Jamison for being so concerned with visitors and non-Christians and etc. I wish I had known you before I was Christian. Your attitude could have really helped me. Oh, and if drinking Coke were a sin, Charlie would allready be in hell.

Secondly, I love Rachel. I don't need a reason there, I just do. I want to be just like her when I grow up.

Thirdly, oh geez.

That's really all I can say about the situation. I can't believe other people (except for my grandfather) still think that, let alone say it in public.

I wonder what cartoon it was. I think the lady should be more concerned about the interspecies dating of Goofy and Clarabelle cow.

bigsip said...

That's like beastie beastiality or something...EW!

Yeah, it's pretty messed up.

Oh, and Jamison is like a coC "Welcome Mat".

If you're a visitor at Dalraida, you'll meet the man!

Jamison said...

thanks Di, and you made me laugh about the charlie going to hell b/c of drinking coke comment...

this whole conversations makes me feel a little embarassed because I know these people. Then I wonder how many other folks are like them around me?

Brewster said...

How old was this lady? Unfortunately racism still consumes our country. I wish that some of those ladies had spoken up. Their silence only allows this lady to continue in such misguided beliefs.

Jamison said...

...and it makes me think that this chick assumes ALL white folks think this, otherwise she wouldnt have spoken up and made herself look stupid on purpose?

bigsip said...

She's in her mid-to-late thirties and she is the LAST person I would have ever expected something like that from.

I think that's why none of the other ladies spoke up. Rachel even said she was speechless. The fact she said it was so shocking, the ladies all went silent in disbelief.

Someone should talk to her about it though.

In any case, I REALLY don't think this is the pervading attitude at our congregation.

There's just still this ignorance that exists in people due to misdirected fear.

And, it isn't confined to any place or group of people. Anyone can be led to think this way, which is saddest of all.

Jamison said...

sadder still is the fact htat this persons children will probably grow up with this attitude...

bigsip said...

Obviously, at least one child already believes this way.

It's sad.

mullinz8 said...

I don’t know what to think about this…

I’m not racist, I do have some prejudices and I think everyone does. My favorite quote from Maya Angelou is, “I love black people but I hate niggers.” (I hold no reverence or apprehension for this word because it’s used as a derogatory term and also an affirmation of friendship, I prefer to not use it because its multitude of meanings.) Obviously her terminology is using this word for all of its thuggish, self deprecating, lazy, ignorant, step-in-fetch-it, minstrel show, mockery of ones proud heritage connotations. Her love of black people is a love for a race and culture that has overcome terrible circumstances and is conscience of their place and limitless opportunities.

There are a large number of prejudice peoples on my father’s side of the family and it was tough to grow up around it. One aunt’s suggestion for my playing with the black G.I.Joe’s was to send them into battle first to save the white ones from getting hurt.

I have no problem with interracial relationships but I do think there is something beautiful about being black, brown, white, red, olive and tan. God obviously made the races different for a reason; maybe it was to test people to see through the shell into the inner person and share the gospel to each and everyone, socially.

Scientifically I’ve heard (from a forensic anthropologist / scientist I interviewed) that there are three physically different races: Asian, African, and Caucasian. I don’t know why and really I don’t care.

I don’t think racial segregation as we know it today will be around or as much of an issue as it has been in the past because there are so many more interracial couples having children. The next generation of “mixed” heritage children will not be able to perceive race as it has been recorded in the history books. There will always be “purists” but their hold will dwindle as race becomes something of a non issue to the masses.

We actually have a few interracial couples with kids at church, no one cares, why should they?

I think that class or at least a few of its participants have to say something about the woman’s comments. If for no other reason than to define if her reasoning is social over scriptural. Challenge her to find grounds for the separation it in the Bible, if she can great, if she can’t she needs to readjust her thinking. If it’s social issue, then as sad as it is, it’s her baggage and she’s allowed to think what she wants. The challenge should still remain from the class, by saying nothing those thoughts are being allowed and supported as something that is ok.

For my boys, they can date whom ever they want, Indian, Asian, African, Anglo-Saxon, what ever, as long as that person is not the racial equivalent of a nigger.

bigsip said...

Mama always said, "Life is like a box of chocolates..."

People are a lot like chocolates. We have this coating on the outside and all look roughly the same.

Some are lighter, some darker. But, you can't tell who someone is until you really get to know them.

Some folks have yummy caramel inside, but some, you break open and find a roach!

I just want my kids to grow up knowing that, no matter what someone appears to be, there's no way to really know who they are until they look deep inside and understand.

Jamison said...

I had lunch with Ryan F and told him this story as if he has never come to our blog. How thick headed can I be.

He either hasnt read it yet or just sat there and let me tell the story so I wouldnt feel dumb...

Anyway, in a few thousand years, I assume everyone will be the same color because of inter-racial marriages. Sounds like good foder for a sci-fi book. One white (or block) guy having to hide and run because their race has been deemed illegal. The irony in the story is that acceptance for other races got society to a point where everyone is the same "race" (A mix), yet they end up being racists because others are different from them. Very "brave new world"-ish.

If anyone wants it, let me help write it.

bigsip said...

Ooo me!!!

I'll help. Good idea!

Did you talk to your wife about it at all? She was probably pretty perturbed by it, too.

Jamison said...

she was just as shocked as I was...

im sorry to butt in here, but you guys HAVE to go to:

I have been laughing so hard. The LEGO "God" looks so mean, but so adorable. I love it when he breathes the breath of God into Adam. Too funny... I see a replacement for VBS here...

bigsip said...

Looking at them on there, I can tell they used a bunch of Star Wars figurines for the little Bible characters.

Joshua looks like he's wearing Obi Wan's clothes!


J.A. Barnes said...

Hey Josh, Jay from WD boards, I have seen and heard this over and over again. I was born and raised in Detroit Michigan and went to mixed schools and churches.

It pains me to see that society still harbors their single mindedness when it comes to inter-racial dating/marriage.

I myself have been in several inter-racial relationships and was often asked in a very rude way, "Why her, she's not white?" this would upset me extremely.

People would look at me like i was nuts for doing it. I just can't figure out why people have to be so stupid. I believe that it's liek they say love is blind and people should let a little thing like color stop them from enjoying the sensation of Love.

With any luck society will wake up soon.

Diana said...

Life is like a box of chocolates.


That's funny. What movie's that from?

bigsip said...

I forget...;)