Tuesday, November 28, 2006

Some Things In There Aren't in There

My new sister-in-law is a Bible major at Lipscomb. Yes, I also wonder why, but I admire her for loving the Word and desiring to learn more about it.

She was at the house Sunday afternoon, talking about a paper she had to write concerning the canonization of Jude and the questions surrounding a passage found in Jude from the Book of Enoch (a book probably written by a Pharisee during the first century AD).

The verse is Jude 1:9 and goes like this:

But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

This verse is found nowhere else in scripture and refers to an occurrence outside the realm of what we know. How do we account for this? Are there other passages where ideas, religious or otherwise, are inserted in the Word?

The short answer is, "Yes."

Here are a few more passages I found here:

The works of theGreco-Roman philosophers Epimenedes and Aratus, quoted by Paul inActs 17:28.

Romans 1:20-29 // Wisdom 13:5,8;
14:24,27Romans 9:20-23 // Wisdom 12:12,202
Corinthians 5:1,4 // Wisdom 9:15
James 1:19 // Sirach 5:11
James 1:13 // Sirach 15:11-12

Here are some more I found here:

Books referenced by the Bible, but not included in the Bible, are...
Book of the Covenant (Ex. 24:7) Book of the Wars of the Lord (Num 21:14) Book of Jasher (Josh 10:13, 2 Sam 1:18) The Book of the Statutes (1 Sam. 10:25); Book of Samuel the Seer (1 Samuel 10:25, 1 Chr 29:29) Book of Nathan the Prophet (2 Chr 9:29) Book of the Acts of Solomon (1 Kings 11:41) The Book of Gad the Seer (1 Chr. 29:29); Book of Shemaiah the Prophet (2 Chr 12:15) The Book of Ahijah the Shilonite (2 Chr. 9:29) Visions of Iddo the Seer (2 Chr. 9:29); Acts of Abijah/Story of Prophet Iddo (2 Chr 13:22) The Story of the Prophet Iddo (2 Chr. 13:22); Book of Jehu (2 Chr 20:34) Acts of Uzziah, by Isaiah, the son of Amoz (2 Chr. 26:22); Sayings of the Seers (?) (2 Chr 33:19) Book of Enoch (Jude 1:14)

Also, a missing epistle of Paul to the Corinthians (1 Cor. 5:9); a missing epistle to the Colossians, written from Laodicea (Col. 4:16)

Very interesting. It builds my faith to see this since the inspired writers verify their contemporaries through mentioning them outright. What do you guys think about this?


mmullinz8 said...

The books we have today are amazing and amazingly accurate considering their travels through the meddling hands of mankind.

It also makes me sure that for as much as we do know there is still more that could be used to refine our walk.

Those books were written and they existed for a reason, to consider our knowledge complete is a bit short sighted.

bigsip said...

I think it's important to look outside the Bible for extra support of our faith.

Obviously, the inspired writers were inspired to use examples from poets, religious writers, etc. from their day.

Of course, they chose the doctrines and sayings that agreed with the Christian belief system and were in harmony with inspired scripture.

I just think it's interesting and a lesson for us as far as study, both intellectual and spiritual, are concerned.

Jamison said...

I am pretty open minded and stuff and I would LOVE to read those, but I would be afriad that I would start to think "well, what ELSE is there out there that we havent found?" and in a way, start to doubt some. Just me.

bigsip said...

I think some or even most of these manuscripts have never been discovered.

Of course, the parts the inspired writers referred to are in agreement with inspired scripture.

It's almost the same, to me, as using sermon illustrations from Reader's Digest today.

bigsip said...

Off Subject:

I just emailed and called one of the Assistant Superintendents of Education for Alabama.

I've known him all my life and he and his family go to church where my Dad preaches.

Anyway, I called for a letter of recommendation for the position at R E Lee High School. He said, "Hey, I'll call the Principal and ask him to give you any consideration possible!"


Y'all say a prayer for my imminent interview.

mmullinz8 said...

So what was wrong with the Book of Judas? When this conversation cycled around a while back Judas was run though the coals for being something near about a heresy.
Who is to say there wasn’t a bit of “inspiration” that book along with the ones that you listed.

I agree with you that all the books should be used to shape our faith though the “widely accepted” and historically duplicated and accurate obviously take the more obvious and important roll in defining who, what and how we are.

Brewster said...

This all goes back to my questions concerning the inspiration of the bible.

Even in the linked article some of the commentators are questioning the author and asking for references, which from what I could tell weren't cited anywhere.

I did find interest in his point that most of the "canon" is considered as such because it was written by apostles, or in a couple of cases essentially approved by apostles (assumed)

I wonder where we get the idea that the entire bible is inspired, or God breathed.

No, I'm not trying to say it isn't or that what we have isn't the true word of God. yes, I am still questioning these things and trying to figure it all out.

Jamison said...

I want nothing more than a job for you Sip... but I will pray that God gives you a job at Lee as a last resort... from what I hear anyway. Of course, a man like you would teach AP, so there may not be too many street tuffs in an AP class.

Look for an email from me regaurding a get together.

bigsip said...

Thanks, Jamison.

I'm really excited about the interview, but still hoping for more than one option.

I'd still love the other job lead, but I can't turn down an offer if it's all I have after a couple of weeks.

bigsip said...

As far as inspiration goes, I believe that what we have in the agreed-upon text is cohesive and not contradictory of itself.

Again, I think that if you study Hermeneutics and canonization methods, it will make more sense.

Indeed, we must study outside the Word to understand some of the stuff inside sometimes. But, limits must be set. If something is put forth as "inspired" then it must not contradict the canon in order to be included.

If any other new texts are found, which is highly unlikely due to the passage of time and how worn and deteriorated they would be, then those texts would need to be examined and found to be completely in harmony with the existing canon in order to be canonized as inspired.

Again, this is extremely unlikely since the world has been practically scrubbed clean of documents over the last 500 years.

Just consider some of the texts lost in the burning of the Alexandrian library.

But, from my own study, I trust the harmony of the existing text and it's veracity as a divinely inspired book.

I just think it is interesting how other bits of truth find their way into the text of the Word. They are mysteries that will probably only be revealed in Heaven.

Brewster said...

I'm still slightly confused actually. I'll leave how we decided what books to decide what's canon for now. But how did we decide canon means completely inspired?

a few times it is mentioned, but since the whole canon thing didn't happen to quite a bit later, how did we get to the whole darn thing is god breathed?

Diana said...

It kind of reminds me of how when people do impressions of Darth Vader, they say "Luke, I am your father."

All he says is "I am your father."
There's no "Luke" in there. Of course without the Luke, no one would know what the hay people are talking about.

bigsip said...

Brew, I read through this and it looks like a pretty good explanation. There is more stuff out there like this, too. All you have to do is look.


bigsip said...

More stuff:


Brewster said...

Thanks sip. I know there is stuff out there, the problem is there is a lot of crap too.

This is why I have you. You help me cipher.

bigsip said...

HAHA! Glad to help.

There is a lot of crap. Fortunately, some very knowledgeable people are out there, though.